Comments on: Further Thoughts from 8/28 (Eph 5) http://www.threenails.org/archives/37 connect, experience, live Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:02:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Marnee http://www.threenails.org/archives/37#comment-26 Marnee Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:39:46 +0000 http://www.threenails.org/?p=37#comment-26 I've just been on the seeking an understanding of the emergent church. Stumbled on Three Nails and liked what I read. Anyway I happened upon this conversation and I must say both responses are in more agreement than you think. The law judges and condemns us. It judges by saying you shall or shall not do such and such, if you do then this is the punishment. We as sinners are judged and condemned by it. On Cheryl's response, the purpose of the law was to convict of sin. Paul taught this in Romans when he said: for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. (3:20) and to the Galatians he wrote: Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.(3:24) Paul said to Timothy: But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully. I just share this in order to show that your two understandings of the law are not in conflict with each other. I think you are splitting hairs over wording and not truth. You both are stating truth about the law that the scriptures uphold. In Christ, Marnee I’ve just been on the seeking an understanding of the emergent church. Stumbled on Three Nails and liked what I read.
Anyway I happened upon this conversation and I must say both responses are in more agreement than you think.
The law judges and condemns us. It judges by saying you shall or shall not do such and such, if you do then this is the punishment.
We as sinners are judged and condemned by it.
On Cheryl’s response, the purpose of the law was to convict of sin. Paul taught this in Romans when he said: for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. (3:20) and to the Galatians he wrote: Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.(3:24) Paul said to Timothy: But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully.
I just share this in order to show that your two understandings of the law are not in conflict with each other. I think you are splitting hairs over wording and not truth. You both are stating truth about the law that the scriptures uphold.
In Christ,
Marnee

]]> By: bodyelectric http://www.threenails.org/archives/37#comment-25 bodyelectric Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:38:17 +0000 http://www.threenails.org/?p=37#comment-25 Thanks for your comments Cheryl, but I must respectfully disagree with you. I would like to first point out that I do not view the law in a negative context. I believe the Law is the truest description of how we were meant to live. The problem is that the Law always accuses and through that accusation we are condemed. It is only through the grace that comes by faith in the Christ that we are saved from that terrible judgement. Just look at Paul's letter to the Galatians and make note of the ways he speaks about the Law. When I read Romans 7 (esp. v7-12), it is impossible for me to say that the Law does not condemn us. We do not need to agree on this point. In fact, there are many who will strongly disagree with me on this one point, but it is the most true reading of the Scriptures that I have found so far. Thanks for your comments Cheryl, but I must respectfully disagree with you. I would like to first point out that I do not view the law in a negative context. I believe the Law is the truest description of how we were meant to live. The problem is that the Law always accuses and through that accusation we are condemed. It is only through the grace that comes by faith in the Christ that we are saved from that terrible judgement. Just look at Paul’s letter to the Galatians and make note of the ways he speaks about the Law. When I read Romans 7 (esp. v7-12), it is impossible for me to say that the Law does not condemn us. We do not need to agree on this point. In fact, there are many who will strongly disagree with me on this one point, but it is the most true reading of the Scriptures that I have found so far.

]]> By: cheryl burnett http://www.threenails.org/archives/37#comment-24 cheryl burnett Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:36:53 +0000 http://www.threenails.org/?p=37#comment-24 A friend pointed out your website to me as we are a small church gathering in a home in Dallas, Texas. I would like to just share some thoughts that were discussed in our study today as we are looking at the book of James 2. "First, I dont think that the gospel condemns people. I think the law condemns people and it is the gospel that allows us to be reconciled God and enables us to live in harmony with the law in a way that was impossible before the cross". The law does not condemn us. The law was established as a "covenant" relationship b/t God and his people (Deut 4:13). The law instead CONVICTS US OF SIN and WE ARE JUDGED BY IT. God in His infinite wisdom as our Father gave us the law to show us what sin was so we could be convicted that we were sinners. This keeps us in check that God is perfect and we are ONLY made perfect through Him. The law is condemning ONLY to those who choose not to accept Him and obey His law. James is telling us in chapter 2 that if we love Him, we will obey Him. Works are carried out through faith. I think many times today's churches view God's chosen people before the cross as having a very different relationship with God than we have today. However, God still extending His grace and mercy to them over and over again, even through all of their mistakes and disobedience. Abraham was a friend of God, Enoch walked with God. We take for granted that we know more about God's character than even they did b/c we live after the cross. But, the only difference is they were living in the promise of what was to come and we are living after the Lamb of God was slain. Those that obeyed Him did so b/c they LOVED Him, not because they had to. I'm sure they carried the same baggage and had very similar problems as us living today. Many people will always view the LAW in a negative context just as many view JUDGEMENT in a negative comment. Yes, we will all sit before the judgement seat of Christ, but for many of us, this is a POSITIVE thing b/c JESUS himself will stand up as our counselor and say "He belongs to me" or "She belongs to me". At that point, Satan's hold on us will be forever released. That to me is the most positive thing that will ever take place!! (just something to think about) Thanks, Cheryl A friend pointed out your website to me as we are a small church gathering in a home in Dallas, Texas.

I would like to just share some thoughts that were discussed in our study today as we are looking at the book of James 2. “First, I dont think that the gospel condemns people. I think the law condemns people and it is the gospel that allows us to be reconciled God and enables us to live in harmony with the law in a way that was impossible before the cross”.

The law does not condemn us. The law was established as a “covenant” relationship b/t God and his people (Deut 4:13). The law instead CONVICTS US OF SIN and WE ARE JUDGED BY IT. God in His infinite wisdom as our Father gave us the law to show us what sin was so we could be convicted that we were sinners. This keeps us in check that God is perfect and we are ONLY made perfect through Him. The law is condemning ONLY to those who choose not to accept Him and obey His law. James is telling us in chapter 2 that if we love Him, we will obey Him. Works are carried out through faith.

I think many times today’s churches view God’s chosen people before the cross as having a very different relationship with God than we have today. However, God still extending His grace and mercy to them over and over again, even through all of their mistakes and disobedience. Abraham was a friend of God, Enoch walked with God. We take for granted that we know more about God’s character than even they did b/c we live after the cross. But, the only difference is they were living in the promise of what was to come and we are living after the Lamb of God was slain. Those that obeyed Him did so b/c they LOVED Him, not because they had to. I’m sure they carried the same baggage and had very similar problems as us living today. Many people will always view the LAW in a negative context just as many view JUDGEMENT in a negative comment. Yes, we will all sit before the judgement seat of Christ, but for many of us, this is a POSITIVE thing b/c JESUS himself will stand up as our counselor and say “He belongs to me” or “She belongs to me”. At that point, Satan’s hold on us will be forever released. That to me is the most positive thing that will ever take place!! (just something to think about)

Thanks,

Cheryl

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